The Rohde & Swharz Group is fully on board with Industry 4.0, one of the Group's key development themes. But to ensure a truly connected industry, communication protocols need to coexist and transmissions need to be secure. A challenge for R&D teams... The heads of the group's French subsidiary share their vision of industry, 5G, 6G and everything that makes up the daily life of an industry with a vision for the future. Listen to this episode of Métrolaudio. The transcript is available below!
Who are you?
Stéphane Bringué : My name is Stéphane Bringué, and I'm head of Rohde & Schwarz France. I joined the Rohde & Schwarz group just over 18 years ago, as head of another French subsidiary - I'll come back to that a little later in the interview. And I took up my post here at Rohde & Schwarz France in October 2019, succeeding my predecessor, Mr. Jean-Christophe Prunet, who had headed it for over 15 years.
But you're not alone, so who's next to you?
Matthias Charriot Hello, I'm Matthias Charriot. So I'm the Rohde & Schwarz France Sales Director, and I joined the group a little over 2 years ago - shorter - so I'm in charge of all the sales departments for Rohde & Schwarz France.
When we look at your website, you present yourself as a partner in shaping the future in the triptych of communication, information and security. Do these three areas have the same needs?
Stéphane Bringué : So, I'd say yes; these days, we put the three areas you just mentioned on the same level.
First and foremost, communication; communication in a hyperconnected world, in a world of Industry 4.0. Today, the Rohde & Schwarz group, historically known for its test and measurement instrumentation tools, has, over the last ten years or so, diversified its product offering into the communications sector. So, mainly radio communication, because we're a wireless company; but not only.
We've also added communication in the media, in media production, in the media production system, so in television, in radio, in podcast radio.
Security. Today, security is everywhere: network security, data security. And the Rohde & Schwarz Group has also been active in the field of cybersecurity for around 10 years now.
What do you do with cybersecurity?
Stéphane Bringué : So, today, we're already integrating cybersecurity into our own solutions and products. Let me give you an example. Today, our products handle an enormous amount of data, instrumentation data, test and measurement data, and so we have integrated cyber bricks, in particular data protection bricks. Let me give you an example: in today's Cloud, data needs to be protected. And we've integrated protection bricks for access to the Cloud, both in terms of data protection, data encryption and data integrity into our own products. That's the first thing we do with cybersecurity.
We have also developed solutions for our customers, particularly in the field of security. And so, when we talk about cybersecurity, today we have a panoply of products - I'll come back to this a little later - ranging from the protection of communication links, to protect access to content, but also the protection of terminals; what we call end points, secure end points. But also applications, since we now also provide solutions for what we call "Web Application Firewall", secure firewalls to protect our customers' applications.
So you've made the leap from hardware to software. Do you do both today?
Stéphane Bringué : We have indeed reached a milestone. Historically, the Group has always been very well known for its hardware designs. But, as a result of market needs and customer demand, I would say that today, we combine both hardware and software solutions, not only in the field of cybersecurity, but also in the field of applications, i.e. all the software used to operate our equipment.
More generally, what challenges are manufacturers facing today?
Stéphane Bringué : So, I'd say, today, if we try to look at the group, the theme is that of safety in what we call Industry 4.0. And I'd say it's a major issue for our business, and therefore for our development, but also for our customers. In other words, today, security in industry has become predominant, and our customers' requirements, not only in terms of radio performance, are now at the same level as requirements in terms of information protection and security.
So "industry 4.0" isn't just a concept, it's your everyday life.
Stéphane Bringué : Absolutely, that's what we do every day. So I'll leave it to Matthias to outline what we see in Industry 4.0 today. We've identified 5 themes, so I'll let Matthias present them.
Matthias Charriot: 5 themes, indeed, these are the challenges of tomorrow's industry, what we call Industry 4.0.
Tomorrow's industry, today's industry, yesterday's industry?
Matthias Charriot: Today and tomorrow, of course. It's just beginning. Let's say we're at the beginning, so it's tomorrow's industry, but we're starting to work on it, yes.
So the first thing is security. We're talking about security, but it's not just data security, it's also infrastructure security, in other words, access. This can involve a number of products to control access to factories and companies, both inbound and outbound. You can imagine stocks where we use scanners to control the number of people leaving these factories. Then, of course, there's data security, because we talked about cybersecurity.
And then, in Industry 4.0, there's everything to do with infrastructure. What's infrastructure? Well, right now, we're hearing about the deployment of 5G - at the urban level, of course - but there are also networks. A local 5G network in a company needs to be able to provide coverage, test quality of service to make sure that there are no communication problems within the company itself, and above all to be able to watch the data taking place there. Behind all this, we're in a field where 5G, for example, is going to have a whole host of connections. In other words, 5G is about cell phones, but it's also about everything to do with connected objects.
Let me remind you that there are 3 main applications for 5G. The first is the amount of data that can be transmitted over 5G, i.e. simply the data throughput. The second is latency, which affects all aspects of the automotive industry, i.e. the reaction time required to obtain information. And the third is the number of connected objects that can communicate with each other. We're going to have to monitor and test this.
And as you can imagine, if there are so many devices, so many connected objects - with radar impulses, with communication with satellites - well, we're going to have to test all that through what we call radio coexistence, or EMC tests. So, Industry 4.0 brings together these four main themes, and across all of them, there are all the services we can provide for each of these solutions.
5G may seem like an innovative concept, but remind me how many years you've been working in this field?
Stéphane Bringué : Since the beginning of 5G, since the beginning of standardization of the 5G standard, since the group is also a player in standardization organizations. Let's put it this way: 5G has been an R&D focus for the Rohde & Schwarz Group for more than 10 years now, or even 15 years in R&D terms. 5G is not new to the group in terms of products, but it is new in terms of applications, and in particular radio coexistence. Radio coexistence is becoming a major problem, I'd say, with the multiplicity of tools, not only connected objects, but also our customers' own devices - robots, for example. So coexistence, EMC tests, OTA tests today - we have a lot of Over The Air coexistence to watch out for. So I'd say that 5G is nothing new. Today, we're even talking about the evolution of 5G.
Matthias Charriot:Absolutely.
Stéphane Bringué : We're also starting to talk about 6G, not just in the industrial sector, but also in the medical sector, for latency reasons, as Matthias mentioned. So 5G isn't new, but I'd say the Group is capitalizing today on Industry 4.0 with the application areas of 5G and 5G coverage, mainly in factories, in industry.
Matthias Charriot: As we can see today, we're in the process of deploying 5G, which means that we've done a lot of work on 5G before deploying it... That's why, even now, we're starting to talk about 6G, to be ready for future communication standards.
We're particularly interested in test and measurement issues. What do you offer in this specific field?
Matthias Charriot: So, if we focus on 5G, we already have all the devices to test: cell phones, connected objects and so on. Obviously, we need to make sure that these products transmit the signal according to a standard, to ensure interoperability between different types of products. So that's the first thing.
Then there's everything we call "radiocom", which is our CMW, CMX500 for example. So these are the test systems that will be used to test the devices. Of course, we can also test the station side, i.e. the transmitter side. So that's the first thing.
The second thing is that in 5G, there's a whole system of antennas. So we have measurement instruments that enable us to check these antenna arrays, so that we can calibrate them and make sure that they comply with standards, and that their specifications are correct. So we're really on the device side.
Then there's everything to do with deployment. What does deployment mean? An operator is going to want to deploy 5G on a network - whether urban or corporate, i.e. a local network - in which case it will be necessary to ensure that coverage is good, and that we can have the same quality of service whatever the geographical area. And so, these are test systems; we can talk about ROMES, for example, in the software, which effectively enable us to map the quality of service of an operator or a 5G or urban network system.
And around all this, there's what I call radio coexistence, so we often talk about EMC. What's EMC? We're going to look at a device, to see what it emits in terms of interference, or whether it's sensitive to interference, i.e. in emissions at Spurious level. Well, what we're also looking at now is the European RED regulation, i.e. radio coexistence, which means that IoT and 5G systems must coexist with their environment. And in its environment, you can have satellite signals. You can even have automotive radar signals, which work at 77 GHz, you know? So it's starting to get high frequency.
Well, all these devices have to be tested in anechoic chambers, to make sure they're immune to all the radio waves in our environment, and to ensure that the devices work together even if they're deliberately disturbed. So, we start with the device and work our way up to deployment, looking at the coexistence of different systems at different frequencies.
So, the group has a special history, a special relationship with oscilloscopes. Can you tell me a little more about it?
Stéphane Bringué :Oscilloscopes: in fact, we've been in the oscilloscope business for some 10 years now. So we've entered the field of oscilloscopes, with, let's say, a different focus, i.e. we've added the word "real time" to the product. An oscilloscope is real time, it's acquisition. So what makes us different? Between the ADC, the digitizer and the processor, we've placed a whole host of FPGAs or ASICs, which enable real-time processing.
This is where you'll find real-time high-definition modes on our oscilloscopes, with digital triggering conditions, which means very precise, and at the bandwidth of the scope, without going into the domain too specifically. And all FFT processing. We're an RF company, so the first thing we look at is spectrum purity. So we have an input stage with good spectral purity, which gives us good analysis and good signal integrity.
So, now, recently, we're really starting to attack the digital domain, so anything involving serial bus links - USB 3.0 type, PCI express, etc. - always including DSPs in real-time systems in our oscilloscopes, which enable us to check these serial links for norms or bugs.
Another little piece of information is that we use our oscilloscopes quite a lot for EMC system debugging, because as it's real time, we can easily capture interference that could be annoying on devices, before sending them to test houses for normalization, for example.
You're a global group. Do you notice any differences in terms of your customers' needs and the solutions you provide for them, depending on the region, particularly in France?
Stéphane Bringué : So, I think that today, France, without being overly chauvinistic, is a melting pot of market demand that corresponds to all the product lines that the Group can offer. As I said at the start of the interview, if we look at the instrumentation sector, we're lucky in France to have major industries, whether in the industrial sector, components or research; we also have a lot of research labs in France. In the automotive industry, we are fortunate in France to be able to work with national manufacturers. France also has, I would say, a very, very well-represented aerospace and defense industry. So today, we address these 3 industry segments, I'd say, with all the products in the Group's catalog.
But that's not all. This is perhaps where we are less well known, historically speaking. We also address the world of defense and security through products that are still radios, but are defense/security oriented.
But if you don't mind, to get back to Industry 4.0, and focus on infrastructure security, I'd like to talk about two product lines we offer today in infrastructure security.
So, one of the most topical issues today, both in France and internationally, is the fight against drones. Today, drones have become a threat not only to governments, but also to industry. Over the past few years, the Group has therefore developed radio anti-drone solutions that can detect, locate and identify drones approaching a site.
And after identification?
Stéphane Bringué : Our business, as you've already guessed, is radio. So we supply sensors, radio sensors that identify, detect and classify. What our customers do next, I'd say, falls outside our scope. What you need to know is that effective drone warfare involves not only the radio sensors I've just mentioned, but also coupling them with other sensors, i.e. from other manufacturers, other partners, who couple video sensors, radar sensors and acoustic sensors with the radio sensors to identify the drone threat more precisely and over a wider area. And the next stage, I would say, is the responsibility of users.
So, to answer your question, the Rohde & Schwarz group doesn't have any solutions, I'd say, for the massive destruction of drones. It's not part of our deontology or product line. In terms of drone control, we have developed solutions based on multi-channel receivers and direction finders that can identify a flying object approaching a site.
In addition to anti-drone measures, as Matthias has already mentioned, we also need to protect our sites, I'd say, from human threats. And the Group has started developing body security scanners based on radio and microwave technologies. So, we started this activity in the airport market to be able to develop and supply body scanner solutions to airport standards. Today, these products are already deployed and, I would say, in operation at a number of international airports.
This technology has also enabled us to develop body security scanners for critical sites, or storage sites, or sensitive industrial sites, which enable very rapid scanning of incoming and outgoing personnel, not only in industry, but also, finally, we realized that this technology could be used in events, to protect sporting events, for example, or musical events. Today, we meet other standards, which are not airport standards this time, but operating standards, I would say, for public millimeter scanners, which enable us to protect access to and from infrastructures.
So here too, we're part of the infrastructure protection of Industry 4.0, but it goes a little further, since today, as you know, France will shortly be hosting the Rugby Cup in 2022, followed, I hope, by the Olympics in 2024. And this is the type of instrumentation - because you could call it instrumentation - in which the Rohde & Schwarz Group and our subsidiary in France must be present to meet event security requirements.
More generally, how does R&D work at your company?
Stéphane Bringué : R&D remains in the Group's DNA. Today, if I take the figures for the financial year just ended, the Group invests around half a billion euros in R&D. Also, 1 in 4 of the Group's employees now works in some kind of laboratory.
So, most of our Research & Development remains in Germany today, for more than 60%, but that's not all. We also have Research & Development in Asia, at a number of hubs based in Singapore.
And then, over the years, I'd say, we've made strategic acquisitions with companies that are now part of the Rohde & Schwarz Group and have their own product development and research units in particular fields. So, to sum up, we invest just over 500 million euros a year in R&D, spread across Germany and a number of other countries around the world.
So, in France, I can say it - not in our Rohde & Schwarz France subsidiary, but in two other Group subsidiaries in France. I can give you the names: a subsidiary called Rohde & Schwarz Cybersécurité France, which has a Research & Development unit based in Montpellier in the field of application cybersecurity, with the development of Web Application Firewalls - WAFs - in particular; and then another subsidiary based in La Ciotat in the South of France, which I managed for some fifteen years, and which is active in the identification and analysis of satellite communication signals, with its own development unit of around twenty experts in the field of satellite radio.
Stéphane Bringué and Matthias Charriot, I'd like to thank you and leave you the last word.
Matthias Charriot: Welcome to Industry 4.0. We'll be there to support all this activity, and always with a cross-functional solution, which is service, because customers don't just want products, they want a global solution. A final word, to say [that] customers, what they expect, is no longer to buy a product; it's to buy a solution. That's what's changed. And in the solution, there's always the notion of service too. So the proximity part is important for them.
Stéphane Bringué : Well, I'd perhaps take up our Group's vision, which is "a more secure world in an ultra-connected world". Today, I believe that Industry 4.0, the theme of today's discussion, is one of the Group's areas of development. But making the world safer in this ultra-connected world is our vision, and I would even say our mission, at the very least, for the next ten years.
N.G.